In this episode, host Elizabeth Pittman sits down with Tim Kurth to discuss his new book, Principles for Good Order: Creating Organizational Harmony Through Effective Governance, which adapts John Carver’s Policy Governance model for Lutheran congregations, schools, and ministry organizations. Drawing on decades of service as a Lutheran school teacher, DCE, and leader at the Lutheran Church Extension Fund, Tim explains why well-meaning board members so often stumble, how executive limitations can actually free pastors to lead, and how confession and absolution can shape the way boards and pastors work together — and he shares why he sees great hope in the next generation of Lutheran leaders.

Get your copy of Principles for Good Order at cph.org/goodorder. 

Episode Timestamps

0:00 — Introduction & Welcoming Tim Kurth

2:00 — Why Good Order Matters for Lutheran Organizations

4:00 — Why Good People Struggle in the Boardroom

6:00 — The Sunday School Space Expert: A Lesson in Board Boundaries

7:45 — The Pastor, the Food Pantry, and the Power of a Board

10:00 — The Board as Servant Leader of the Voters

13:00 — Why Policies Need to Be Written Down

14:00 — The Three Lanes: Voters, Board, and Pastor

17:30 — Right-Hand and Left-Hand Kingdom Responsibilities

19:30 — Executive Limitations: Why “Shall Not” Can Be Freeing

22:00 — When Limitations Go Too Far

24:30 — Supporting Pastors Who Feel Ill-Equipped to Lead

29:00 — The Supplement to the Diploma of Vocation as a Monitoring Tool

32:00 — How Principles Based Governance Fits Lutheran Confessions and Polity

34:30 — Confession, Repentance, and Absolution in the Boardroom

39:30 — Hope for the Next Generation of Lutheran Leaders

42:45 — Where to Connect with Tim

44:00 — Closing

About the Guest

Tim Kurth retired from his role as Vice President of Ministry Solutions at the Lutheran Church Extension Fund (LCEF) in 2026. Previously, he was a Lutheran school teacher as well as a Director of Christian Education (DCE) for congregations in the Chicago area. Throughout his years of service, Tim helped to start a Lutheran high school and develop international nonprofit ministries. He enjoys participating in short-term missions, which has taken him to a total of six countries. Tim is a father to two and grandfather to three and currently lives in the Indianapolis area.

Resources Mentioned

Principles for Good Order: Creating Organizational Harmony Through Effective Governance by Tim Kurth — cph.org

Tim’s website: principlesbasedgovernance.com

Concordia Publishing House

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LCMS Foundation

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